Anarchy in Somalia

30 Jun 2011

Rothbard, Shameless Self-Promotion, private law 13 Comments

 

Earlier this year the BBC did a series on the 20th anniversary of the fall of the Somali state. (Gene Callahan held a prayer vigil for Siad Barre, I hear.) It just came to my attention, but better late than never:

Economists familiar with the Rothbardian tradition have taken the analysis even further, persuasively arguing that Somalia is much better without a state than it was with one. The standard statist put-down — “If you Rothbardians like anarchy so much, why don’t you move to Somalia?” — misses the point. The Rothbardian doesn’t claim that the absence of a state is a sufficient condition for bliss. Rather, the Rothbardian says that however prosperous and law-abiding a society is, adding an institution of organized violence and theft will only make things worse.

1. Reply

   Joseph Fetz says:

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   I read that article a few articles and I must say that it was quite good and straight to the point. Also, thanks for linking to that Powell et all paper, I have used it quite extensively in the past. What many people fail to do when discussing anarchism or stateless societies such as Somalia is to compare the before and the after. Usually, they just point to the fact that Somalia is a poor country with very little industry (as if this is somehow related to not having a State). My response has always been, “yeah, but how does their economy and quality of life today compare to the way it was when they had a government?”, then, I provide them with a link to the Powell paper.
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   Blackadder says:

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   To what extent does Somalia really qualify as anarchy? I know there is no national government, but my understanding is that there are various regional and other tribal governments in place that don’t exactly conduct themselves according to Rothbardian principles.
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     Joseph Fetz says:

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     Certainly, it isn’t a stateless society in the Rothbardian tradition, that much is stated in the Powell paper, but there certainly is far less government and a whole lot less centralization. While it is a matter of degree, one could say that the dramatic reduction of government has served to increase the quality of life in Somalia as compared to its prior state.
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       Blackadder says:

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       Certainly, it isn’t a stateless society in the Rothbardian tradition, that much is stated in the Powell paper, but there certainly is far less government and a whole lot less centralization
       If you mean less government than the prior communist dictatorship, then sure. I’d imagine that if you asked your average liberal whether they thought communist dictatorships tended to have too much centralization, they would agree that they do.
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     Joseph Fetz says:

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     I should also mention that the tribal entities that you mention merely solve dispute resolutions and apply the common law, they have no other function.
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       RFN says:

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       I hope our anarchistic state wouldn’t stone people for adultry. Somalia is a Muslim country, therefore it is not an anarchistic state, as Islam is government.
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         Joseph Fetz says:

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         That is incorrect. While there are some Muslim factions attempting to gain control, the whole of the Xeer system is based upon reimbursement, not retaliation. Xeer is by far the prominent legal framework used in Somalian civil and criminal cases, whereas Koranic law is used for things such as marriage and inheritance (Powell was correct in this observation).
         I have been to Somalia (as well as many other Muslim nations) and I can tell you that Islamic law with regard to civil and criminal cases is almost nonexistent.
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           Blackadder says:

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           Joseph,
           Here is an article about a woman being stoned to death for adultery in Somalia. According to the article, the stoning was ordered by a judge.
           I don’t think that’s the Xeer in action.
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             Joseph Fetz says:

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             I didn’t say that it was, I am aware that it has happened, but I do not see Muslim law as being as prominent in Somalia as RFN suggests. He was saying that Islam IS the government, I disagree.
             Also, stoning women for adultery (even rape), as well as for marrying without being a virgin is described in Deuteronomy, and thus is part of Judaic and Christian law, as well. Remember, Christians, Jews, and Muslims are all “people of the book” and thus their religious laws are very similar.
             There are many localities in the US that have “blue laws”. That does not make America a nation based upon Christian law.
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             Joseph Fetz says:

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             From the story, “BBC East Africa correspondent Will Ross says the stoning is at least the fourth for adultery in Somalia over the last year.”
             Boy, that sure sounds like a pandemic of Sharia law to me….
             
     • Reply

       Blackadder says:

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       I should also mention that the tribal entities that you mention merely solve dispute resolutions and apply the common law, they have no other function.
       There may be areas in the country where that is true, but I don’t think that’s true overall. Somaliland, for example, appears to have a fully functioning government, and as noted below the government in the Islamist controlled areas doesn’t seem to restrict itself to applying the common law.
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         Joseph Fetz says:

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         Yes, there are factions attempting to install government through violent means, and some have been more successful than others, but it certainly does not provide a case FOR government.
         Certainly, Somali’s aren’t Rothbardians who understand how a stateless society would work, rather they are people who already had a chaotic reality whose government crumbled in civil war. If all of the sudden the US government collapsed there would be factions vying for control, many through violent means, and some would gain footholds in particular regions.
         I don’t delude myself into thinking that humanity is now ready for an entirely stateless society, but I do believe that the ultimate goal of humanity is to eventually be able to be free of any monopoly of force. I think that reducing the powers of government have already proven empirically that less government does indeed produce greater prosperity, and that it is only one of the first steps in the right direction.